2nd W Caspian Gull - Seaton Common

[sidwemn]

Record shots using double stacked convertors - not the sharpest

Cheers
Martyn

[SteveClifton]

Well done for getting some flight shots of it Martyn.

Later in the afternoon this bird moved to the pools closest to the Zinc Works road, giving excellent views for well over an hour (mostly with its head down). It's not often one shows this well, at least in the NE of England!

[SteveClifton]

A few more...

[SteveClifton]

Last two...

[AKinghorn]

In the field today some of us were singing its praises as a 2nd winter but its dawned on me it's could be a 1st winter, as Steve and others said they thought it was in the field today. Down to the fact that the coverts show no hints of being of a 2nd winter bird, the mantle is more suited to 1st winter, and the bill is fine for 1st winter. Shots here to show 1st winters that can have a bill like the bird today: http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/Caspian%20Gulls%201st%20years%20-%20Jan-Apr%201.html

Do people agree?  

[SteveClifton]

As you know I raised this question today Andrew, and also discussed the age with a couple of other birders present.

My gut feeling at the time was 1st winter, though I had no literature with me on site today. Virtually all of the 2nd winters on Steve Arlow's site have less extensive markings on the mantle than this bird, and as you say, the bill is within range for a 1st winter (they are very variable in their bill markings in both 1st and 2nd w).

The real clue for me though is that all of the wing coverts and tertials show no signs of any grey feathers coming through, which would point strongly towards 2nd winter. I think I'll stick with my gut feeling that it's prob a 1st winter.

Cracking bird though, whatever age!

[AKinghorn]

As you know I raised this question today Andrew, and also discussed the age with a couple of other birders present.

Yes you did, my post should have made that clear. Sorry about that Steve.

1st winter for me as well, I clearly put way to much emphasis on the bill. Typical!  

ps. I altered my previous post to clear things up. 

[StewH]

Just working my way through the pics and my immediate thoughts were what the hell makes this 2nd winter... so obviously I agree!
Stew.

[SteveClifton]

Stew, I think that the reason 2nd w stuck today was that a 2nd w (actually, more than one?) had been reported in the area several times since mid Jan, so we therefore assumed it was one of these birds until better views were obtained in the afternoon.

I note from a search on Birdguides that a 1st w was present on 12th Jan & on several dates earlier this winter, but personally it wouldn't surprise me if at least some of these sightings relate to the same individual!

Ageing Caspians isn't as straightforward as it might seem, and based on the general appearance of this bird I agree, it should be a 1st w, but a quick look in Olsen & Larsson's 'Gulls' (on p310, plate 42) shows a 1st w and 2nd w that look almost identical (pics 3 and 4 respectively). To elaborate, the 2nd w is a retarded individual, and therefore probably atypical of most birds of its age. It shows, amongst other things, more 'complex' markings on the tertials (fine barring) and more obvious (but still fine) barring on the greater covs.

Today's bird looks closer to pic 3 (the 1st w) in its greater cov markings (which to my eyes look worn and pale-tipped) and tertials, which have less obvious/extensive and 'smoother' pale edges

Ironically, its mantle markings look more like pic 4 (retarded 2nd w)!

A bit of video of the bird here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoTwBxGNmt0&feature=youtu.be

[SteveClifton]

Just recieved an email from James Robson, who emailed a link to this page, to Martin Garner.

His verdict: definite 1st winter.


Another short video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xSxiP2bLMI&feature=youtu.be