Just when we were all delighted that the Forestry Commision was at last thinking beyong seried rows of alien conifers, and now planting and managing for wildlife and amenity; the government announces a plan to sell off these nationally owned woodlands to private forestery enterprises. Of course there have been the usual platitudes of retaining access to the public and biodiversity encouragement and words to similar effects. However the blinding truth is that these new owners are first and formost businesses and anything else is a mere side show. In our immediate area your club has been working with Guisborough about long term planting and management matters. This initiative will be dead in the shell if the proposed sell-off goes ahead. Various action groups across the country are mustering petitions to oppose this at their local level and for all I know there may be one such locally. However there is a nation wide petition, seeking signators which can be Googled at " 38 degrees ". If you feel strongly as I do, please show your opposition to this dreadful prospect. Thank you.
Alistair McLee
could not agree with you more Alistair, I have signed the petition and would urge all members of the TBC to do so asap regardless of which political party they belong to. We must not allow the Goverment to destroy any more of our countryside in the name of making money. Once these forests are gone they are gone for good. SIGN THE PETITION NOW!! get your family friends to sign do it now.
Alan Crossley
The forestry commision sold off land 25yrs ago so that a certain wealthy man could build an exclusive council estate WYNYARD.
would it be possible to place Alistair's original article on the TBC home page to make more people both members and guests aware of this petition. The more people who sign up the more chance there is stopping the sell off happening.
Sorry Alan but to believe a Petition from the 2 people who will sign it on here will stop this when the likes of Sir John Hall can buy the land build an exclusive estate shutting down public rights of way in doing so is IMHO living in a dream world when one of the threads with the most posts is about a dead Koi carp. Sorry Noel
Find your response dissapointing Noel, the petition does not consist of 2 people but in fact 229087 have signed as of now, if we just sit there then we do not have the right to moan when we are denied access to many of favourite woodland places. Also woods=birds without which many of woodland birds who are already struggling with a lack of habitat. As most people who log onto our site do so through the home page a small announcement placed there would do harm and hopefully get more people to sign the petition. Many people at my place of work were unaware of this petition but have today put forward their objections by signing the petition. I feel you are not giving our membership the chance to make their own minds up as to wether to sign or not.
Anyway the decision rests with the webmaster/committee.
Today , on behalf of the club, I have written to DEFRA to express our opposition to the government's plans. If anyone wishes to write to DEFRA privately on this matter, then please feel free. Head of Department, Caroline Spelman, DEFRA Nobel House, 17 Smith Street, London, SW1P - 3JR. Alistair McLee
I've signed the petition and passed the site on to friends to sign also.
Sorry Alan I speak from personal experience my late brother Peter was one of those who lost his job when Wynyard was sold off this broke him as a working man the only consolation we all have is that it gave him time to create a bird watching facility that everyone on here enjoys CBWP for this he got no thanks or recompense the only thing he got from the local council was an order to get off that land CBWP once again I will politely ask the newbies to this area of birdwatching please study your local history before you decry someone for stating the facts if you want any further info about him contact Frances Tasker, the Dr. David Bellamy or your ex MP Frank Cook all of whom will tell you about his work in the area of birdwatching in the Billingham-Wynyard area.This is said with all due respect.Noel
I am digressing I know from the main issue which I initiated here, but I was interested in the statement about the Forestry Commission selling off land to John Hall in 1987. The entire Wynyard estate was sold by the Londonderry family in that year to Mr Hall as he was then. The FC were never players or owners of part of the land. They may have leased some for their own plantings of conifers but the poor state of the present plantings would suggest that they were never involved at any stage.
I have added this to the front page - sorry for the delay but work has been very busy.
Glad to see Alistair correcting the 'facts' stated above.
Thaks for your time and effort Jamie.
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/save-our-forests
291700 and counting
291700 out of a population of 62000000 one brilliant petition I am not negative just brutally honest,if a march of 500000 couldn't stop a war what chance has this petition got
Petitions, however well supported by the people of the UK , may not prevent the sell off of our woodland, but compromises can be wrung; stipulations and safeguards attached to sales. At the moment there is a great government smoke screen to the effect that ancient woodland and places like the New Forest will be safe. Well the truth is that these types of woodland never would be in any real danger of commercial exploitation for a variety of reasons. It is those certain areas within presently commercially run F C forests, which are threatened; areas which are not parlicularly good for quality tree growing, and can be spared for conservation purposes. These are your Nightjar and Woodlark clearings which support diversity; the quiet corner where Goshawk nest. A private company will view these as wasted areas in terms of timber production, and plant up with conifers, regardless of how poor the timber crop may be. Why? Very simpl e- much of our locally grown wood, which was virtually valueless a few years ago, now has a price as fire wood for the new generation of wood fueled furnaces for electricity generation - look no further than the timber wagons entering Wilton site. The idea of renewable energy sources is excellent and laudable, but there must be protection from overplanting of every acre of available land. ( Oh, and by the way, I hear that those ancient woodlands are to be offered to the "big charities" to be managed and what if these bodies do not want them?) Alistair McLee
I agree with Alan, the signing of any petition is very much a personal choice, driven by whether you feel passionately or not about the subject. The number crunching game should have no bearing on whether you sign.
Noelg – It is a shame that you have yet again taken to trying to antagonise people with the argumentative nature of your posts. In addition to this, you seem to now be using the forum to air personal grievances from years gone by which I feel is inappropriate. It would surely be more beneficial to help people who are new to the club understand what impact loosing our local forests such as Guisborough will have on scarce breeding birds like Crossbill and Nightjar as Alisdair has articulated in his post. If you do reply, please don't tell me to check my local history, I have been birding in this area for over 25 years and I am well aware of our heritage and how the birding sites across Cleveland have been developed over the years.
Noel G
I do not understand how you can say it is worthless for 200000+ to sign a petition when your brother and a few others made such a difference to CBWP. Good job he did not share your tedious negativity. I know very little of the 'history' but I do not know why your brother's achievements entitle YOU to be rude and ignorant.
it's a no brainer really. can't see why anyone wouldn't sign the petition, given how easy it is to do online. certainly you have to question the wisdom of suggesting that as part of the big society we all need to club together and raise money to buy forests, to stop loggers chopping them all down.
basically they want us to buy something we already own, and to pay for the upkeep, charge ourselves a fiver a pop (plus 20% vat ) to visit it, rather than getting in for nothing like we do now.
lobbying worked in 1985 when thatcher tried to do exactly what the current coalition are proposing. given the relatively small amount the sell-off will raise, do cameron and co really want to upset half a million people, many of whom will be traditionally sympathetic to the tory/liberal parties in marginal rural constituencies ?
thatcher was wise enough to back down, and there is every chance the coalition will do likewise.
Once again I finally got this forum to discuss something whether my views are accepted or not doesn't matter the fact that you have replied is all that matters.
I am at a total loss to understand your your negative attitude towards this issue Noel and without sounding to impolite if you have nothing constructive to add then please leave those people who do care to get on making an effort in saving our forests, if we succeed in gaining any concessions then will you not use the forests or will you continue to use other peoples efforts to have a day out in the woods?
Hi Alan
I totally agree, if you take the time to check previous threads, Noelg seems unable to contribute to our forum without resorting to antagonistic postings. He seems to be quite pleased with himself in the fact that he has finally got other people contributing to the forum but what he fails to realise is that they are discussing his inappropriate behaviour rather than the matter in hand which is the plight of our wooded areas and Alisdair's sensible request to get as many people to sign the petition as possible.
Noelg – if you do not have anything constructive to say regarding this or other issues, it would probably best if you refrained from posting on emotive subjects.
Well the petition is up to 355512 now. Support seems to be growing by the day.
Hi Col D so my posts re Armistice day, Christmas, Aldi Telescopes, odd fish in Greatham Creek, Dipper at Weardale, Little Egrets ,Usage of Forum, Heron nest, Autumn geese, North East Tyne Tees News have been antagonistic. With all due respect Noel
Noel
The tone of your last email proves my point. I have suggested that you refrain from posting on emotive subject and 'issues', I would hardly consider Dippers in Weardale emotive or an issue. Many of your posts appear to serve no real purpose and do not add to the debate, they simply detract from the real subject which many of our members wish to discuss in a reasoned and polite manner. The working groups responsible for the development of Guisborough forest and their creative management program means that this beautiful area of woodland has been re-colonised by Nightjars which are now able to survive happily alongside the many different recreational groups that enjoy the forest. Do you really believe that this is not worth trying to save? No due respect - Col D
Members may be interested to know that, as Chair of the Club's Conservation Sub-Committee, I received a letter from the Forestry Commission dated 28th January 2011 asking TBC to submit its views on the future ownership and management of the public forest estates in England. The Conservation Sub-Committee will, of course, submit a response, so if any members have a valid point to make for or against the proposed changes, then please email me at: ecparker@supanet.com and I will do my best to incorporate these as far as possible. That said, the TBC's response will be against the proposed changes in forest ownership. This plan has been poorly thought through by the Government and the reasons for it remain very unclear. Indeed, on 'Question Time' on BBC1 on 3rd February, it was evident that the Immigration Minister, Damian Green, could not put forward a logical argument to support his Government's stance, saying that the issue is not about raising money but removing the Forestry Commissions "monopoly" of forest management. The audience in Workington were overwhelmingly opposed to the plan.
We have been requested to complete Defra's consultation document on its website at: http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/forests/index.htm
I would urge people to sign the petition mentioned on this Forum, as the Government will have to take note if there is huge public antithesis towards its proposals. These plans could be modified or even shelved if there is enough public opposition.
Up to 457500 signatures on the 38 degrees petition now. I was disappointed to hear that my MP Anne McIntosh has supported the sale of the forests. The same is true of Greg Knight the MP whose constituency includes Flamborough, so sites like Old Fall, South Landing etc. will also be under threat.
On behalf of the club, I wrote to the new young conservative MP for Stockton South, James Wharton. His response was, in summary we are aware of concerns; there will be safeguards to preserve the access, conservation and biodiversity and he will support the government stance unless unless he finds out to the contrary. No word as to how much will be saved IN THE LONG TERM from getting rid of our heritage. There were no details as to how things were to be safeguarded - just a bland re-assurance. So that's alright then?
Alistair McLee
As well as writing to our local MP, I wrote on behalf of the club to Caroline Spelman, head of DEFRA. Today I received the now customary pat reply, which I shall not bore you with re iterating here. It did stress the government questionaire which detailed a variety of options which were for consideration, but nowhere does it have the key question "Do you want ANY changes"? I thought it would have been abundantly clear to her by now by the simple process of weighing her in tray every 10 minutes or noting the responses on the petition site " 38 degrees". There are virtually half a million on it at this moment. I gather orchestrated government leaks are now suggesting that the scheme will be modified - this is often a precursor to a U-turn in policies as I recall. Let us hope so.
Alistair McLee
Looks like petitions do work; the government are having a rethink.
Ben.
As Ben says, now we need to wait until Friday, until then keep signing and fingers crossed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12488847 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12488847)
Well, well a U-turn in all its completeness! I see on TV this morning that the coalition has cancelled its plans to privatise any of the forests in England and to set up a panel of experts to review and propose how best to manage the forests for amenity and conservation. I would expect the big hitters like the Wildlife Trusts, RSPB and National Trust to be players, but at a local level, for detailed input, clubs such as ourselves must continue to be players too.
Off now for a celebratory doughnut for my elevenses.
Alistair McLee
victory for all those people who signed the petition ;D, it just as well that over 500.000 people did think like certain individuals with their negative attitude who felt that petitions were not worth the effort!
sorry but in my excitement over the victory I made mistake in my last post it should read:
victory for all those people who signed the petition , it just as well that over 500.000 people did not think like certain individuals with their negative attitude who felt that petitions were not worth the effort!
I agree, Alan. There is little doubt that the strength of public opposition made the Government realise that they were on a hiding to nothing. The thing that concerns me, however, is how poorly this whole plan was thought through and rushed into the public domain. I think,though, that we must give the Government some credit for at least acknowledging their mistake and ditching its proposals.
As Ali says, it is important for the TBC to continue to be involved in decisions over our local forests. We had a significant input into the 'Guisborough Forest Plan' and I'm sure the Forestry Commission benefited from this. Sadly, Cleveland is deficient in woodland, as is the UK as a whole when compared to other Eurpoean countries and we will do what we can to encourage further forest planting.
Ted