Am I the only person who thinks that the opening times are so short it's barely worth them opening after the clocks got put back, they close an hour earlier, why can't they open an hour earlier.
Most Rspb reserves are open from dawn till dusk, (Only the visitor centre is open at certain times). It would be nice, but a little bit earlier would do.
When you get on sight you are told about all the birds on sight which have been seen buy the hide guides who opened up at 8 o'clock, and are quite often long gone by the time we get there(the birds not the staff). Surely we could be allowed on site to all the hides even if the visitor centre does not open till later.
I am only posting here because you can mention this to any member of staff but nothing comes of it, as it is not there decision and posting cards in the suggestion box is a real waste of paper.
Finally this is with great respect to all the staff who I think do a grand job.
Some RSPB reserves are opening from 9.30 am now - e.g. RSPB Leighton Moss which is a little better.
Yes Ian Leighton Moss visitor centre is open 9:30-5:00(4.30 pm November-January) but the reserve is open dawn till dusk as is minsmere, titchwell and many more, my point is the visitor centre does not need to be open, just a gate to allow members in once there are hides open
You may want to visit other nearby locations before the reserve is open as an option. I presume you have a car and can tour the many other locations we are fortunate to have in the estuary. This website lists many and all new members of the club can be treated to a conducted tour of key birding sites if they are unfamiliar. I agree you will not find a chalked notice board reporting what is about, but you will have the satisfaction of finding your own and who knows, you could even submit records to the club and log your own observations of numbers and trends throughout the seasons.
You are understandably disappointed if a bird has moved off on the reserve ere you arrive, but it is a reserve - not an aviary.
For those working normal 9-5 jobs the reserve is effectively only open at weekends. It would definitely be nice if they allowed access to the hides/reserve at other times. If they quote Health and Safety it would be nice to hear what the differences are to the other reserves that can open.
A quick response to Jamie's comment, after the usual disclaimer: I do not represent the RSPB or its views.
That said, whether or not reserves allow access "out of hours" has a pretty clear correlation to the neighbourhood in which they are sited. Leighton Moss is next to Silverdale, which is pretty well-to-do, and they don't have significant issues (there is also a public bridleway through the reserve, passing the Public Hide, so they *have* to allow access there). Numerous other reserves are in quiet areas where the nearest population centre is small and wealthy. Old Moor, on the other hand, is right next to Rotherham and they have to "secure their borders" after hours; there are several other reserves in this category. I can't recall if Fairburn Ings allows access after hours but I do know they've lost hides to arson and vandalism.
I don't need to name the adjacent population centres, but Saltholme has suffered break-ins, arson attacks, sheep rustling and numerous other incidents; there's a reason that the place is locked at night.
I did ask this question on the RSPB Community Forums and that was basically the reason given by a member of Staff from Saltholme as there was a risk of vandalism and other associated things as well. I know at RSPB reserve Radipole Lake as there is open access because of public rights of way and all of the hides have been subject to vandalism at one time or another. That RSPB reserve are replacing there Bird hides with viewing screens because of that reason. So I do understand the RSPB closing Saltholme reserve at the same time as the visitor centre.
Ian.
From the Old Moor website:-
The Visitor Centre and reserve is open every day of the year apart
from Christmas Day and Boxing Day. The centre opens at 9.30am
and closes at 5pm February to October and 4pm November to
January. In addition, the reserve stays open until 8pm from April to
September although there are no other facilities available at this time.
I think this is the model that others would like to see Saltholme follow and I believe it is in a worse area than Saltholme
Quote from: THOMO on November 16, 2016, 06:50:14 PM
I did ask this question on the RSPB Community Forums and that was basically the reason given by a member of Staff from Saltholme as there was a risk of vandalism and other associated things as well. I know at RSPB reserve Radipole Lake as there is open access because of public rights of way and all of the hides have been subject to vandalism at one time or another. That RSPB reserve are replacing there Bird hides with viewing screens because of that reason. So I do understand the RSPB closing Saltholme reserve at the same time as the visitor centre.
Ian.
Those times would certainly suit me Jamie.
I stand corrected on Old Moor. It's been a few years since i visited and the policy must have changed.
Of course, for Saltholme to stay open until then, that would presumably mean someone having to stay late to lock up, which would mean the RSPB paying their wages for that time (i.e. money going to an employee instead of into the habitat). If you really want to see them change policy, it would be better to contact the reserve management team directly instead of posting to TBC. Better yet, volunteer and get involved.
Regarding Brian's original post, I believe there are plans afoot for a scheme, on a trial basis (to see if there is enough interest to justify it*), which allows access early in the mornings on certain days. Keep an eye out for the official announcement.
*There was an early access scheme for TBC members a few years ago. I'm told it was abandoned because it wasn't being used.
I wonder if it really is worth Saltholme opening early in the morning. How many members of the RSPB or the public use it at those very early hours. A trial would be OK. But I doubt many would use the access at a very early hour. I'm 65, but I rely on public transport and so visiting at an early hour would be impossible for me.
Ian.
In reply to some of the responses
I would not want the reserve to be open at night, but I do go to other sights very early as this is possibly the best time to see birds, as I was quoted by a hide guide how he had excellent views of a merlin on a post near the saltholme hide at 8am recently. I was wondering if anyone can tell me the current set up for opening of the gates and hides as I am getting conflicting info.
With regards to open access If the RSPB were to allow early access I would expect it be via the gate next to the workshop which I think would deter any undesirables as I think it has camera security, and other gates kept locked until the visitor centre opened
Quote from: Brian Martin on November 18, 2016, 06:40:25 PM
In reply to some of the responses
I would not want the reserve to be open at night, but I do go to other sights very early as this is possibly the best time to see birds, as I was quoted by a hide guide how he had excellent views of a merlin on a post near the saltholme hide at 8am recently. I was wondering if anyone can tell me the current set up for opening of the gates and hides as I am getting conflicting info.
With regards to open access If the RSPB were to allow early access I would expect it be via the gate next to the workshop which I think would deter any undesirables as I think it has camera security, and other gates kept locked until the visitor centre opened
I'm an early bird as well and to be out and about 5 or 6 o'clock during the summer is a great time. I work, I can't pop along to saltholme every day, during 9-5 but I can at much earlier times.
I think one of the other drivers to the current arrangement (apart from security issues) is that Saltholme are very keen to keep track of visitor numbers as they are set annual targets.
Current arrangements as I understand them are that the Estate Teams unlock the various hides etc shortly after 8, unless there's an urgent issue which requires their attention (e.g. the aftermath of last winter's dog attacks on the sheep). The (volunteer) guides generally arrive a bit later (others can correct if I'm wrong but for the days I know about most turn up between 9 and 9:30), which is usually early enough to start building a picture of what's around before the first visitors arrive. It remains to be seen whether the guides would come in earlier to accommodate an early arrival scheme for visitors, but I suspect that most of the early visitors would be experienced birders who don't need assistance in identifying the creatures on site . . .
Of course, if you want to come in early, you could always *become* one of the guides. ;)
Seriously, more volunteers would be welcome, particularly on Saturdays when there are often just two of us. Even if you only wanted to do a morning, it would be a welcome contribution, and you'd get "first look" at the birds.
If they need to monitor visitors I am sure people could register there presence on their way out via the visitor centre
Regarding security at salthholme, as quoted by LockhartH at the moment the gates and hides are opened at 8am and guides go to them at 9-9:30am which is ample time for any undesirable to do what he wants.
Today I visited haverton and then proceeded onto the reserve at 9am via haverton gate and visited Paddies and Wild life watch point and saw no one until visitors arrived after 10am, assuming the gate was open at 8am. That's 2 hours when anybody could come on site (Anybody except members) and do what they want.
Surely it is a security benefit to allow members on sight after 8am they could report anything suspicious or of importance.
I did say we're short of guides on Saturdays. Today, I was the only one on duty for most of the day and I didn't start until 12 (I've been dong that for about 18 months after a health problem last year). However, there are also members of the Estate team out and about, and the average low-life isn't usually in the habit of getting up at the crack of dawn.
Incidentally, I spoke to a couple of people today who were able to confirm that the previous "early access" scheme was abandoned because it wasn't being used. I also learned that Saltholme had to make special arrangements with SABIC and their security providers to enable that scheme to take place; I don't know enough about the arrangements to comment on whether similar arrangements would have to be made for future schemes involving extended access.
At risk of repeating myself, if you're serious about these suggestions then it's best to address them directly (preferably in writing) to the management team at Saltholme.
When you say early access scheme do you mean people where coming onto sight prior to the place been opened up or what I am proposing which is to come onto sight after the gates are opened at 8am.
With regards to the scheme being abandoned, there would be nothing to abandon as everything would be running the same as it is now but we would be officially allowed in if the gates and hides are open.
I don't know the full details as it was before my time (more than 5 years ago) but I believe it involved letting people (specifically TBC members) in via a side gate on certain days, from 8am. When I say abandoned, that side gate stopped being opened, and the guides stopped making a point of coming in early to greet eager visitors who didn't exist.
As per my earilier comment, there *is* a trial scheme for early access coming again (I think it's due to run from some time in January), but it will suffer the same fate as the last one if people don't actually use it.
And to repeat myself *again*, if you're serious about your proposals, TAKE THEM TO THE MANAGEMENT TEAM. Posting on a TBC forum does NOT constitute bringing your ideas to their attention.
I do plan to speak to them but needed to glean as much info as possible from anybody who was prepared to give it before I speak to them, and I do appreciate all the info you have given, Thank you
Bear in mind that one or two things I've mentioned are from 2nd or 3rd hand info (e.g. I don't know exactly when the previous scheme ran). I think everyone will be interested to hear how you get on . . .
I think one problem is that opening at 8am does not help the majority who work 9-5 so the only ones using the scheme will be the people who could come in during the day so you will probably just end up with the keenest subset of them. Having late openings instead until say 8pm would allow the 9-5 brigade access and I am sure it would be taken up a lot better compared to the early access
I agree and will also ask the question and see what they say.
Ideally it would be good to have all of the Saltholme reserve available for access all of the time. The reason that parts of the reserve are not open 24/7 is simply a reflection of the fact that we are on Teesside and that there are some valuable assets that I am eager to ensure remain intact.
I perfectly understand the frustrations, Saltholme is a great place and before RSPB arrived there was only at best unofficial access to some parts.
It is worth remembering that it is only part of the reserve that has restricted access. You can go to Dorman`s pool any time and if you are a key holder can get into the hide (TBC manage the key holder system). You can also go up to Greatham Creek and walk the length of Saltern Wetlands. The area at Haverton view point, the Allotment pool and the scrub area is also open all the time.
By special arrangement with TBC, we installed the Phil Stead hide and this is available from 8am every morning except Christmas Day (we actually get that day off). All those other Bank Holidays when most folk are out having a good time; we are here working ... and also having a good time by the way!
In the New Year we are offering an Early Birder ticket as an experiment that will allow RSPB members early access from 8am to those areas of the reserve that we close down. You can find out the details of the Early Birder tickets from the Saltholme visitor centre reception.
I hope that everyone can appreciate the reason why all of the reserve is not open access and take full advantage of those areas that are.
Thanks
Dave Braithwaite
Senior Site Manager
In case some people have missed this post on the rspb announcements page via Dave_N , This is the response from Dave Braithwaite, I also spoke to Dave yesterday who said he would like to run this to start with but would look at other options suggested after seeing how this goes.
Thanks for the update Brian.
I hope enough people actually use the early access scheme, so it remains in place after the trial period.