Disturbance - What to do about it.......?

[TobyAW]

Been away for a few days and had a wee dip into the sightings pages and saw the disturbance posts. This seems to be a recurring theme with lots being said but not much being done. I have set this discussion up as a way to try and keep these issues in one place, and mainly off the sightings page.

The best, and possibly only way, is to do what Colin did and actually engage with those disturbing, be they walkers, photographers or birders at the time rather than pointing it out on here. There's a reasonable chance those that do disturb don't visit this website or read anything that's put on here. If those that are unaware of their actions aren't picked up on them at the time, how do they know they're doing wrong? Other than this what else can be done? We have worked on a code of conduct for the area, does everyone know this and where to get it from? Could it be better distributed/highlighted around the county? Would it make any difference?

If anyone has any thoughts as to how to get on top of this then hopefully they can and will be shared here.

The idea of fieldwork skills is a good one (people could put fieldcraft tips on here or in another topic) but then we have the issue of those that don't actually care about the subject to get that shot. How do we deal with those? Do we take photographs and put them on here in the hope that someone recognises them and can have a quiet word in their ear about their behaviour and offer advice?

Hopefully this will generate some discussion and ideas and not turn into a slanging match. At the end of the day we need to try and encourage respect for your subject and also fellow enthusiast. We all take pictures to share with others but would it not be even better to share the real thing?

As far as field craft goes I will try and offer what little I have....
Before photographing a subject, watch and study it closely. Many species will have routines and behaviour that, once observed and noted, can be used to get a little closer for a better look or picture. Examples would be hunting owls that roam in a circuit or waders feeding along the shoreline. Watch their movements and by getting into position early they may actually come to you. Your actions should not make them change their natural behaviour so knowing that behaviour is key to reducing disturbance and increasing your success.

When approaching a subject, don't walk directly at it. Instead approach at an angle/in a spiral. Always keep your eye on the subject and observe how it reacts.

Use cover where possible and ensure you don't break the skyline.

Hopefully others will chip in with some thoughts but trying to get the ball rolling.

[AKinghorn]

We have worked on a code of conduct for the area, does everyone know this and where to get it from? Could it be better distributed/highlighted around the county? Would it make any difference?

TBC Voluntary Guide for Wildlife Photographers: http://www.teesmouthbc.com/Main/VolGuide.aspx

and the DBC have a guide for all; The Birdwatcher's Code; http://www.durhambirdclub.org/dbc.pl/static/code.html

The same code and extra information available on the RSPB website itself: http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/watchingbirds/code/index.aspx

Cheers,

[alan crossley]

Agree with Toby about moving this topic away from the sightings page but I feel one of the big problems is how many of the people who are causing the disturbances are members of TBC or DBC ? If they are not members will they use the forum pages and see the discussion or do they just use the excellent sightings page to gain acess to the birds? So if the concerns about disturbances are still expressed on the sightings pages maybe some of these people will take notice, I know this is expecting a lot but we have to try all avenues.
We have to try to educate the growing numbers of photographers who clutching their new digital cameras looking for subjects to snap, are visiting our area many not being birders at all. Maybe some form of notice/leaflets available at Saltholme RSPB could be made available as for many of these people the reserve is their first point of call.
I hope this makes sense.
Alan

[StewH]

Just one observation which might be worth taking into account... a tad controversial as many of you will expect from me.

I believe that this website is used by many photographers to find out where the subjects are and that leads to almost 'twitch-like' numbers of people chasing the same birds and increasing the disturbance... I've made the point before with regards to Grasshopper Warblers and the disturbance caused by the throng of photographers to the resident breeding birds there.

I'm sure therefore that the culprits are aware of the problems they are causing but just don't care.

A possible solution, or at least something that may help, is that pictures posted by our local and by and large respected photographers are done so WITHOUT their location.  I've been deliberately doing this for several months now.

This is also something posters on the sightings page need to be aware of and not just because of the risk of photography related disturbance.  To post exact locations of some of our more vulnerable species is, at best, naive and in some cases plain stupid and irresponsible.  Am I the only person who's noticed the complete lack of sightings updates from some of our most active members?  This may be because they have become increasingly 'at odds' with the unfortunately growing number of thoughtless people who are causing all this upset and so just keep their sightings amongst themselves?

Just a thought

Stew

[A McLee]

Further to StewH's excellent observation, i no longer report here my Little Owl nests in my area.

[Michael_A]

My little Owls Nests

[A McLee]

I agree Michael, a tad possessive on my part. Only "their "nest boxes are mine.

[Col D]

I agree with Jamie, it is nice to see the RSPB offering a helping hand with the education of wildlife enthusiasts. I use this term rather than photographers as this latest incident is a prime example of 'all the gear, no idea' and could quite easily refer to a birder. The photographer either doesn't know or understand his subject or doesn't care. I'm guessing that he hasn't got permission from the landowner to deviate from the sea wall and probably doesn't have permission to disturb a schedule one species for the purpose of photography. Even if he does have authority to do this, the fact that he finds it acceptable to disturb late breeding Barn Owls indicates that he doesn't appreciate that the mortality rate for inexperienced owls fledged late in the year is undoubtedly higher as they have to battle against the winter elements to find food before they have honed their hunting skills. To this end, they can certainly do without disturbance. This degree of ignorance is what I mean by 'all the gear, no idea' but at least this is combatable with education, however if this photographer is anything like the ones I challanged last week then he may not care. I would urge anybody seeing inappropriate behaviour on Greenabella to challenge those responsible.

[A McLee]

Perhaps we are targeting photographers through the wrong medium ie pages like these? There are magazines for photographers themselves and if a competent birder who is also a photographer could write an article for such publications, then it might go some way towards addressing the problem. I do not believe the issue is solely a local one.

[Jaybee]

Perhaps we are targeting photographers through the wrong medium ie pages like these? There are magazines for photographers themselves and if a competent birder who is also a photographer could write an article for such publications, then it might go some way towards addressing the problem. I do not believe the issue is solely a local one.

So YOU have decided that all the blame should fall on those whose hobby is photography.
It isn't birders with cameras or ******** with cameras it's the "purist" photographer.
And to add insult to injury you are suggesting that a birder (some of whom think they are the moral guardians and owner of all birds) who also takes photographs, should show us how to go on.
Some people want guidlines up on posts to tell us how we should go about our hobby. We are constantly being told we need to be educated on how to photograph birds.
I would suggest that a lot of birders would gain a lot of knowledge if they spent a day with a "good" photographer and learnt what true fieldcraft is.
Or maybe come sit with me in the same spot at the side of a field/hedgerow/river for a straight six hours and learn how birds/wildlife will come to you.
Sitting by the side of a scrubby area for a week and spotting two pairs of groppers is a lot better than rushing down to Dormans to join another 100 people most of whom only knew the birds were there through reading the forums.
I have on occassions gone to photograph birds that I read about on the forums like the bee-eater etc but it is only a handful.
I have no spoonbill, bluethroat, white throated robin etc etc etc etc etc etc photographs - I'd rather find my own now and when I do there will be no birder around to "educate" me on how to photograph it/them
The total amount of effort put into watching birds for a lot of birders/birders with cameras boils down to being able to read a sightings page.
Maybe a photographer should write and article for birders - they have magazines too - saying how biased and narrow minded some of them are.

To make things fair why don't the critics drop the word photographer from their personal rants and simply say there was an ******** with a camera.
The ******** could be from any camp - birder/photographer etc and we could ALL have a go at him/them.

To be honest I think the loathing of photographers by some birders is so ingrained that nothing would please them more than having bird photography banned all together (with the exception of birders who take  photographs of course).

[Col D]

Hi Jaybee, whilst I agree with some of your comments, I certainly do not agree with some of the language you have used in your post. I'm sure some of our members will find it distressing and inappropriate and I'm also sure you are intelligent enough to articulate your argument with out resorting to it. That said, i can appreciate that terms like 'targeting photographers' could antagonise our respected photographers who always display excellent fieldcraft. The problem is, as I have stated before, the 'all the gear, no idea' brigade. Optics of today mean that new birders can get excellent views at a distance so they are less likely to have to get close to birds, unfortunately this is not the case with photography. I'm not saying that the problem is limited to photographers but this is where it is most likely to manifest itself. The best thing is to always approach the 'offender' and politely explain that their behaviour may be impacting on the welfare of the bird. I have done this several times recently and only once have I had an aggressive response (the threat of a call to the nuclear police and the confiscation of their equipment soon put paid to that). If more people approached anybody acting inappropriately rather than just posting comments then novices would learn quicker and the problem would reduce.

[Jamie]

I have edited the language in Jaybee's post as referred to by Colin as I believe it was not acceptable.

[Jamie]

I think some people are getting to sensitive about the word photographer. A photographer is "a person who takes photographs" according to Collins English dictionary. Therefore if a Granny pulls up with her Kodak Brownie she is a photographer as Eric Hosking is etc. It does not matter what else they do with their time.

Perhaps it is time that none birding bird photographers (or whatever they call themselves) found a new name to call themselves (if one does not already exist) so they do not get upset by the other 99.9% of the population referring to people taking photographs as photographers as defined in the English language

[Jaybee]

My apologies for offending language but this constant have a go at "photographers" really gets me down.

I think some people are getting to sensitive about the word photographer. A photographer is "a person who takes photographs" according to Collins English dictionary. Therefore if a Granny pulls up with her Kodak Brownie she is a photographer as Eric Hosking is etc. It does not matter what else they do with their time.

Perhaps it is time that none birding bird photographers (or whatever they call themselves) found a new name to call themselves (if one does not already exist) so they do not get upset by the other 99.9% of the population referring to people taking photographs as photographers as defined in the English language

So you are quite happy Jamie to be associated with the birder who throws rocks into a bush at South Gare to put up a wryneck.
Or a birder throwing bricks into a hedge to put up SEOs at Raintom meadows.
You are quite happy to be grouped in with these people?
After all they are birders.
And thanks again for laying the onus on us to find a new name for ourselves.
Anything else you would like us to do like stay away all together.

[Jaybee]

As a balance to this "debate".
Often times complaints are made about the noise of cameras going off in a hide when a decent bird lands in front.
Commonly called rattle mode - I term it the olivetti club - it is simply the mechanics of DSLR cameras and to be truthful little can be done about it..
One tip that I hope people will adopt is to set the camera in single shot mode when taking those first shots.
A freshly arrived bird is certain to be spooked when it hears 30 bren guns going off in it's ear the moment it touches ground.
However the bird will react only slightly to single shots taken every 30 seconds or so but will by and by stay put.
To be honest most of those first 10,000 shots will be dumped anyway.
Once the bird is settled it really will pay little attention to however fast the frame rate of the camera can work and people with cameras can  rattle away to their hearts content whilst not disturbing people with binoculars
To those who don't like the sound of rattling cameras I find them no more noisy than constantly bleeping pagers.