Teesmouth Bird Club

Whilst out birding today, I decided to pop to Thornaby to view the waxwings. Upon arrival I was disappointed but not surprised at the actions of one of the ever growing band of photographers. The photographer in question was stood less than five feet from the Rowan tree that the waxwings were trying to feed in. He stood there for some time and looked confused as to why the birds did not return to feed, even when they flew over a couple of times and tried to alight before flying off, the penny still didn't drop! The same happened last week with at least four photographers crowding the tree at Skippers Lane, preventing those birds from feeding. It is surely more than a coincident that numbers were building up nicely there until the photographers arrived and then the birds quickly dispersed. A similar thing happened with the Woodchat Shrike at Hartlepool, with photographers approaching ever closer. On one day they even had the bird cornered in the Croft, when I pointed out that the weather had been inclement the previous day and that the bird needed to feed more freely, I was greeted by the response that it was 'tame' and 'had already caught a bee' whilst they were watching. What they failed to appreciate is that when left undisturbed, the Woodchat ranged more widely and fed more vociferously. It seems that we now have two distinct groups of photographers in Cleveland, those who are birders and those who are simply photographers, evidenced by one happy snapper who told me he was photographing two Woodchats until I pointed out that one was in fact a male House Sparrow! Those photographers who are also birders understand the subjects they are shooting and make an educated judgement call on whether their actions are disturbing a bird. They have the knowledge and fieldcraft to adjust their behaviour accordingly to remove the negative impact their presence may have on their subject. These photographers manage excellent results whilst always putting the welfare of the bird first. The second group of photographers are unfortunately what are commonly referred to as 'all the gear but no idea' and it is these people who are causing unnecessary distress to some of the birds they are photographing. Please remember that many of these birds, especially waxwings, are tired migrants trying to build up fat reserves to see them through the winter and their return migration. Please use a bit more common sense - if the feeding pattern or behaviour of a bird changes when you approach then you are probably disturbing it and you should retire to a more respectable distance. I hope anybody looking at this post will take the time to read this carefully and I am sure that if you do, you will understand that this is not a moan or a gripe at ALL photographers as we have some excellent ambassadors for this specialist sub-section of birding. It is simply a request for people to consider their actions so that the birds are left undisturbed for all to enjoy.    

It seems as though some photographers (again not all and certainly not our respected local snappers) are still getting far too close to Waxwings. I stopped at Ingleby Barwick today to chat to a photographer who was sensibly taking photos of the birds from the other side of the road when I noticed a second photographer emerge from the bushes the Waxwings were trying to feed in. He then proceeded to walk directly up to a group of birds feeding in a hawthorn bush until he was about 10 feet away and not surprisingly the birds were flushed. When I pointed out that he was far too close he commented that they had only flown to a nearby ash tree and that Waxwings are very confiding and you can get to within 5 or 6 feet of them. This is clearly not the case and it is irresponsible to even attempt it considering the sub-zero temperatures these birds are having to endure. A Waxwing invasion is a fantastic spectacle but just because they are here in numbers, it doesn't mean that life is any easier for them. Please use a bit more common sense and allow these birds time to feed in peace. Flying up to nearby trees every time a photographer gets too close means expending unnecessary energy which eats into fat reserves and it could determine whether the bird makes it through the night or not.     

Hi Col D have you noticed none of the so called photographers have made an appearance on this thread or mine to defend themselves Noel

It's quite apparent there are numerous posts that get little or no replies on the forum.

I don't think it was Colin's intention to get into a heated debate about photographers defending themselves or justifying their actions.

Colin has quite rightly expressed an opinion that he feels is correct and I agree that birds shouldn't be flushed to obtain photo's whilst feeding.

I was disgusted earlier this year when two (not sure what to call them) males arrived at Southgare with cameras to capture the Wryneck.

They spent half an hour searching for the bird, as it wasn't showing itself the proceded to throw rocks at every bush and shrub hoping to flush the bird out!

However in my opinion there are certain species;  resident and migrant that can be approached within a few feet without disturbance.

Over the last forty years of my birding and the numerous encounters with Waxwings, the studies I have compiled is that you can often stand within a few feet of them. Many of these birds that arrive on our shores have had little or no contact with humans, so there is no fear of them.

An example of this, is the encounter that Henry and his son had on the Fair Isles.

http://fair-isle.blogspot.com/2010/11/waxwings-oct-25th-2010-day-well-always.html

I have also observed Waxwings were people are going about their everyday activities which has had no effect on the birds feeding.

The flock at Whitehouse Road Billingham were feeding on Rowans outside the front doors of the residents. The Flock at Norton, which again were feeding on Rowans were quite oblivious to the comings and goings of all of the residents there.

I'm not quite sure which category that I fall into with regards: some photographers (again not all and certainly not our respected local snappers) are still getting far too close to Waxwings.

Unfortunately I don't own 3K to 15k of equipment which allows photo's to be taken from the opposite side of the road.

I use knowledge and common sense to try and obtain reasonable shots for reference of my target species.

It might be an idea ;that if there is a genuine concern for such birds, refraining from posting them on the sightings page is the obvious answer. The photography fraternity would be then none the wiser to their presence and the birds would be left without disturbance.


Regards P

Would certainly agree with your observations that not posting things on the sightings page would cause less disturbance but it should not need to be the case.  Some birds are more prone to disturbance than others, I personally would not post Long-eared Owl roosts on the sightings page although the RSPB are controlling things well at the moment.

With regards Col's comments on Waxwings, if photographers are stopping them feeding then they are in the wrong - no excuses!  By stopping them, standing under berry trees while the birds wait nervously in nearby non-food trees is obviously disturbing them - behaviour which was certainly the case with the Skippers Lane flock.  Behaviour around the Woodchat was, at times equally disturbing.

Sorry to make one last point which may cause upset but, if you don't have the equipment to photograph the birds without causing them disturbance, don't photograph them!  The values and wishes of non-photographers is just as important of those of us with cameras and we should definitely be trying not to disturb either the birds or the rest of the birders!

Quote from: Buzzard on December 22, 2010, 03:49:33 PM

I was disgusted earlier this year when two (not sure what to call them) males arrived at Southgare with cameras to capture the Wryneck.
They spent half an hour searching for the bird, as it wasn't showing itself the proceded to throw rocks at every bush and shrub hoping to flush the bird out!

Regards P 

I also witnessed a similar instance with regard to the same bird at South Gare, and the guy I saw throwing rocks into the bushes was only carrying Bins, but his friend was carrying a camera.
I was astounded that anyone would do this, regardless whether a bird watcher or photographer.

Just checked my records and the guy throwing rocks also had a scope, so I'd Imagine that he was a bird watcher, obviously not a very patient one.

Quote from: noelg on December 19, 2010, 05:07:17 PM
Hi Col D have you noticed none of the so called photographers have made an appearance on this thread or mine to defend themselves Noel

I suppose the reason being that, to make such an appearance, as If to defend there actions would obviously be admitting there guilt, so I'm not surprised. I would Imagine that, if they are forum members, they've read the report and hopefully going to act more responsible in the future.
Or maybe the people responsible are not forum members. 

Let us all get off our 'High Horses' for a minute. If you see someone doing something you think is wrong why not go and say so to the person at the time. People do lots of things Birdwatchers tend to moan about; Dog walkers, Kite boarders Surfers etc etc there's a very long list. None of the people involved think they are doing anything they would regard as wrong. Let's not preach to the converted, speak to them, the vast majority of people are very decent, if we point out our concerns we may change thier behaviour.


                                                               Cheers Ben.

Hi All

Just to clarify a few points raised above. I think Stew and Buzzard have hit the nail on the head. As their comments suggest, some birds are more approachable than others and it is an understanding of bird behaviour that is the difference between a considerate and inconsiderate photographer or birder. I agree that some flocks of Waxwings are incredibly confiding but others are skittish. If you know your subject well enough you can judge whether you are causing disturbance, you cannot just assume that all Waxwings are confiding.

Buzzard – Just to put your mind at rest, your excellent comments regarding behaviour in Waxwing flocks proves that you have the fieldcraft and understanding of birds to produce excellent photographs without jeopardising their welfare. With that in mind, I would comfortably place you in the 'respected local snapper' category, keep up the good work!

Noelg – Buzzard is right, it is not a case of trying to start a heated debate, it was simply a case of reminding some people that their actions may be impacting the feeding pattern of some Waxwings. A comment like 'none of the so called photographers have made an appearance on this thread or mine to defend themselves' is not really helpful and will only get peoples backs up. We are all simply trying to enjoy the same hobby, but from time to time it may be necessary to address minor issues but this should be done in a polite and non-confrontational manner. 

Stew – I know where you are coming from regarding careful consideration of postings and agree that publicising an unmanaged LOE roost would be somewhat negligent. However it is nice to see that Toby is giving some of the more recent additions to the birding fraternity the chance to see these birds without causing them any distress. The sightings page is an excellent place for birders to obtain the information they require to add birds to their list and I have been approached personally several times this winter by people asking for advise on finding Waxwings. I know finding Waxwings seems an easy task in an invasion year for experienced birders but newer members do not know their favourite haunts or behaviour so our help is invaluable. You are right, it should not be necessary to stop posting sighting due to the behaviour of a small minority, I think addressing any behaviour issues is probably the best cause of action.

Ben 338 – I agree with addressing any behaviour issues immediately but as you will note from my post regarding the Ingleby Barwick incident, the photographer just ignored my advise. 

Hi Col D to my mind the purpose of an open forum is to create a place for open debate whether we like what people say or not or is the purpose of this forum to just slap everyone on the back and say oh aren't you the clever one? If you have a look the threads which have had the most replies are mostly those about photography and not those about the birds in this region; I am not anti photographers by any stretch of the imagination, so please have a read of the threads on this forum and see how many have had a large number of viewings but virtually no replies. All the best for you and yours Noel. ps have a read of this this is not a new discussion http://www.teesmouthbc.com/forumtbc/index.php?topic=1259.0

Hi Noel

I completely agree, there is nothing wrong with healthy debate, it is just the tone of emails that I sometimes take issue with. Words like 'so called' and 'defend themselves' are a touch confrontational. We are all part of this forum as we share a common interest and it is important that we understand how our actions not only impact the birds but also others who may be enjoying birds in a different way. If we all work together, we can enjoy the birds together and this is where the forum is important to ensure we have an outlet to communicate concerns, but this must be in a way that is not antagonistic. I do read all the threads and I don't think that the number of replies a posting gets is an accurate measure of its worth, if it has a respectable number of viewings then surely that means it is of interest to many. Perhaps a lot of people get the information they need without needing to comment. I would much rather the forum was like that rather than people replying just for the sake of it.  Finally, I would just like to say again that this thread is not a gripe at photographers, just the behaviour of a very small minority who happen to have cameras. The club website, the bird report, my screensaver and indeed my study walls are all enriched with the excellent work of some of our local photographers and long may that continue. 

I know that in the past I have been critical of the behaviour of some photographers, however today I would like to thank the two photographers who were stood along the fence line the Barn Owl likes to hunt from opposite the Cowpen Carpark. When I approached them and explained they were standing where the owl liked to perch they were very apologetic, explained they were unaware that their position would disturb the bird and they retired to a respectable distance. Whoever you are, thank you for your understanding.

Col D