Teesmouth Bird Club

was out for my weekly trek round seaton common/north gare/seaton snook/seal sands/long drag/reclamation pond etc today. as is normally the case the birds must have got wind of this  and elected to vanish.

as i came round from north gare sands intothe snook i became aware a 4x4 was behind me. whenever istopped to scan for birds the vehicle also stopped. halfway up the snook i started getting paranoid and stopped and turned to get a good look at the vehicle. i was somewhat relieved to see it was the police.

i carried on to the end of the snook and sat down on the rocks to survey the estuary. the police vehicle pulled alongside. i have to admit it was very un-nerving as they were staring  at me but said nothing. i climbed up the dunes to check the power staion field. a few wheaters and linnets, but nothing else. i suddenly realised the police were out of the vehicle and standing right next to me. their first question was " do you know who we are ? " which sort of threw me, as i hadnt seen either of them before, and all i could come up with was " are you the police? "

given they were in police uniform with the word " police " on the chest and were driving a vehicle with "police" written across it i realised this may sound like sarcasm. they then informed me they were actually armed police and were carrying guns. i thought this more information than i needed but they then asked if i knew what the building i had been looking at was. when i replied it was a power station they felt the need to ask if i knew what sort of power station it was.

they then told me how it was their job to protect the power station from terrorists, and began asking why i was looking at it, whether i had been arrested before, where i lived,  and after all this asked me to produce some i.d. fair enough i probably dont look like the stereotypical birdwatcher, but then again i don't look like a terrorist either.

i dont drive and i'm not in the business of carrying my passport around with me, but was happy enough to show them everything in my wallet. they didn't seem satisfied with my i.d. or my explanation that lots of people looked at the power station with binoculars as there were usually peregrine falcons on the roof. they claimed they stopped everyone who looked at the power station, though i have never been stopped previously, and they had been following me for a good 15 minutes before i went anywhere near the power station.

at the end of the day they were pleasant enough, but they did warn me that next time i went near the place i should have full i.d. with me.

anyhow...was just wondering if anyone else has had similar encounters and what they found was the best way to get around this sort of thing happening. as i dont fancy carrying my passport around with me everytime i go down there is the simple solution just to not look at the power station or the power station field ?     

Lol! Sounds like you had a right old time with them. Obviously they've got a job to do and usually they're civil and courteous. At the end of the day who does look like a terrorist?

I've been stopped a few times though not recently, even when stood next to the building fence taking photos of the Peregrines. Most of them are pretty decent and some quite chatty. I've picked up a few bits and pieces from them as they're in the same spot 24/7 and see everything that's going on. Some are interested in wildlfie and ask what's been seen locally. They must get pretty fed up having to cover such a small area. I think every now and again staff gets roatated so sometimes it's back to square one until your face gets known.

You don't have to carry any ID to prove who you are, though it's useful to have with you some form of ID. They're usually perfectly happy if you produce your club membership card as the club has been in contact with them and they should know the score. You don't actually have to reply to any questions they ask, not even to give them your name, though it's usually best to keep things civil. They should complete a stop/check form and offer you a copy. For a while they were advising you to carry the form with you in case you got stopped again - but there's no legal requirement for you to do so.

If they're a bit stroppy then you don't have to answer any questions. They can't search you either. You can ask for their names/admin numbers and lodge a complaint if you're not happy with the way you're dealt with.

cheers ian, guess i must look dodgy. everyone says so.

had yet another one of those days. spent 40 minutes dodging golf balls looking for and not seeing the shore lark, which was down on the beach with you. fell in the zinc works road ditch while looking for an elusive warbler, then nearly gave myself a heart attack at the reclamation pond when flushing a snipe. 

When stopped at any time by the police a member of the public is entitled to ask for, and be supplied with, an official document recording the encounter which one can carry and show them or colleagues on the next shift, as evidence of the meeting. Once they have had to fill a few of these in they tend not to interrogate the public too frequently after that as they have further paperwork back in the office. I have always found them helpful and bored out of their skulls with the job, so show them a few birds so they will be knowledgeable for subsequent birders on the road.
Alistair McLee

they weren't rude or anything, i just found their interrogation bizzarre. most middle aged men would be able to identify a policeman in uniform, recognise the power station, and understand why it could be threatened by terrorists.

but surely if they wanted to distinguish between bona fide birdwatchers, for want of a better word, and terrorists, they would be better going down the route  of asking you the best way to differentiate between a chiffchaff and a willow warbler, or to pull out a few photos of birds in poor light  and ask you to identify them ?

Several years ago, TBC members were experiencing significant 'stop and questioning' by police, culiminating in members being asked to leave Seaton Snook by two young armed officers when Cleveland's first Long-billed Dowitcher was present, despite the fact that they weren't on British Energy Land.  The area concerned (Power Station Field and the blockhouse) is owned by PD Teesport and we have their permission to access it for birding purposes.  As the then Chairman of the Club, I felt this incident was too high-handed and I requested, and subsequently attended, a meeting with representatives of the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, who are responsible for policing nuclear power stations nationally, and the Harbour Police.  This took place on 5th June 2008 and the Minutes of the meeting are reproduced below for your information:

PRESENT:   Mr T Parker (TBC Chairman)      
      Sgt Martyn Elliot (Civil Nucelar Constabulary)
      Sgt Jim Bone (PD Teesport – Harbour Police)
      PC Tony Parkes (PD Teesport – Harbour Police)      

1.0   PURPOSE

1.1   The meeting was called to discuss TBC's use of sites around the Hartlepool Nuclear Power    Station for bird watching purposes and to foster a better understanding on both sides.

2.0   ISSUES RAISED BY TBC

2.1   Mr Parker thanked the CNC and Harbour Police for meeting him and stated that whilst the Club fully understands and supports the need for security against terrorist activity, it is considered by some of our members that they are being unduly targeted whilst pursuing their interests, which include undertaking local and national bird counts, bird recording and photography.  The main areas where incidents are occurring are Seaton Snook (particularly near the blockhouse), the Power Station field and the Zinc Works Road (notably the emergency access ramp).  Mr Parker stated that it is unreasonable for the police to request members to leave land not owned by British Energy and access to which has been previously agreed with the landowner, PD Teesport.  Incidents experienced range from stopping and questioning, form-filling and, on rare occasions, being requested to leave.  Regarding the latter, he cited an example in 2007, at which he was present, when up to 20 members were asked to leave the blockhouse by two armed police officers.  One Club member has recently been requested by an officer to telephone British Energy every time she wishes to visit the Seaton Snook/blockhouse area in the future.  Clearly, such a system is both unreasonable and unworkable, as many members make spontaneous visits depending on the time of year, the state of the tides and what birds are present at the time.  Mr Parker stressed that no incidents have ever been reported to him where officers have been rude, unpleasant or impolite.

2.2   Mr Parker stated that TBC members merely wish to visit areas around the Tees Estuary that they have done for decades without the concern over being regularly approached.  The 'stop and question' policy does not seem to be applied equally and many bait-diggers, dog-walkers and golfers who use the same area are rarely approached. 

2.3   PD Teesport has been made aware of incidents by TBC and they had had discussions with the CNC.  It had been assumed by TBC that, following these, the situation would improve but it hasn't.

3.0   ISSUES RAISED BY CNC AND THE HARBOUR POLICE

3.1   The police have a remit to patrol and protect key national installations, such as nuclear    power stations, which are COMAH (Control of Major Accident Hazards) sites at risk from    terrorist and other illegal activities.  In view of the terrorist threat, officers are now armed    and there has to be an understanding on both sides of the need for this level of protection.

3.2   Hartlepool Power Station has CCTV and officers are required to stop and question people    in the vicinity as they see fit, with birdwatchers being particularly prone because they carry    cameras, telescopes and binoculars.  This surveillance will continue in the future.

3.3   Regarding the stop and check forms, Sgt Bone stated that it is a Government requirement that when any person is stopped and questioned by armed officers there must be a written record of this for the protection of both the individual and the Police.  This will continue in the future, as the police have no choice in the matter.  Sgt Bone confirmed that there is no problem with TBC access to PD Teesport lands in the vicinity of the power station.

3.4   Sgt Elliot stated that the CNC has only been on site for several years and officers are still    getting to know individuals. More time is needed to build up relationships and officers will    stop and chat with members in order to get to know them.  Sgt Elliot stated that this should work both ways and TBC members should approach and speak to officers.

3.5   Regarding parking on the emergency access ramp on the Zinc Works Road, Sgt Bone stated    that this should cease, even if members are with their cars.  There were concerns over the    setting of precedents for parking here and problems should a car break down in the event of    an emergency.  Cars left unattended on the ramp would be removed.

3.6   In response to a request for a membership list, Mr Parker stated that this could not be    supplied for data protection reasons.


4.0   AGREED ACTION

4.1   TBC members to carry and show a valid membership card on request by a police officer.  Mr    Parker agreed to send Sgt Elliot a sample card (Action: Mr T Parker).

4.2   TBC members will desist from parking on the emergency access ramp, though parking off the    ramp and viewing from it on foot is acceptable.

4.3   TBC members who have already had a stop and search form issued should carry this with    them, along with their membership card, and this may obviate the need for another form to    be issued on subsequent occasions.

4.4   The TBC and police should allow time for officers and members to get to know each other.

4.5   Sgt Elliot is to be the point of contact should there be any ongoing problems and he will    email Mr Parker once a fortnight.


Cc to:    Sgt Elliot, Sgt Bone, PC Parkes, TBC Committee and Sub Committees.

I hope this helps to clarify the 'official position'.

Ted Parker

thanks very much. i certainly didnt get any paperwork from them, and although i use this website i'm not a tbc member ( though clearly signing up would make sense ) so i suspect there is every chance i will get stopped again tomorrow and have to answer the same questions.

there certainly didnt seem to be any common sense applied.they watched me from a distance of about 10 yards, looking at birds on the snook for 20 minutes before having a 30 second scan of the power station field, and only at that point did they approach me. instead of a whole load of questions that were politely put, but incredibly patronising, i dont understand why they didnt just introduce themselves e.g "hi we are armed nuclear police and patrol the power station to prevent terrorist attack"  rather than "do you know who we are ?" ,  instead of making me try to guess like i was still at school.